Madeleine is very ambitious in terms of what she wants this museum to be. So I remember when they sat down with me finally, and I said, "What do you want to do?" "Well," they said, "we have 141 separate things we want to accomplish." "Oh," I said, "only 141? That should be easy to do." So I took the list home and I remember I sorted it out and came back to Lisa and Madeleine and said, "Listen, I’m gonna take these 141 ideas and put them into buckets, group them, and then let's see if we can persuade people to fund buckets, multiple ideas, and let's try to—"

I added some additional things to it, endowing certain positions. It was a great battle plan when we started. We've accomplished many things on that list, but by the way, there are more things to go. But it was a great vision. Madeleine, the one thing that I think people underestimate is Madeleine had a very clear vision of what the MCA ought to aspire to. So two or three years into the campaign, Caryn and I were in Aspen for the Ideas Festival. And Glenn Lowry and Thelma Golden were [on] a panel one day, and they went back and forth, back and forth describing what they thought a 21st-century museum ought to be.

And I elbowed Caryn, who was sitting next to me, and I said, "Madeleine had it absolutely right, didn't she?" 'Cause this is exactly—what they were suggesting we were already doing. So I think we picked the right course and sometimes you'll learn in businesses—in business, as I have, that people often don't guess the right way to go. I think we have. And I think we will eventually fulfill the entire vision, and we will be exactly where we want to be.