It was my wife Caryn who dragged me to the MCA. She said, "If you don't come with me to see art, you can't go to your sports events." So reluctantly, screaming and kicking, I came to the MCA in the late seventies. And then an interesting thing happened. We were at a Contemporary Art Circle event. I think it was at Muriel Newman's, but it was in the South Side. Maybe it was at Ruth Horwich's.

Anyway, I'm on the stairs going up to see some art, and I hear Eddie Bergman and Lew Manilow talking about a director search. They were looking for a new director, and someone had suggested that they hire John Neff. So I stopped, I said, "You know, I don't know anything about art, but John Neff is a personal friend of mine. I've known him for a long time. I just wanted to tell you he's a good guy, and I'd be delighted if he came here."

So they hired John Neff. Not because of me, they just hired John Neff. And I called John up and I said, "Listen, I know nothing to speak of of art, but what could I do to help you?" And he said, "Why don't you join our board and maybe you can help me raise money?" And that's really how I got started with the MCA.